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	<title>Comments on: The Rise of Neo-Liberalism</title>
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	<link>http://www.thereisnoplan.com/2009/02/15/the-rise-of-neo-liberalism/</link>
	<description>Risk-averse policymakers should not read this blog.</description>
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		<title>By: Hugh Ashton</title>
		<link>http://www.thereisnoplan.com/2009/02/15/the-rise-of-neo-liberalism/#comment-192</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugh Ashton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 09:43:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thereisnoplan.wordpress.com/?p=766#comment-192</guid>
		<description>You have some interesting points here - well argued and well presented. I even agree with many of your ideas, but I feel that you are starting from completely the wrong position.

Basically, you are asking the world once again to bow down under the American yoke (though I do appreciate that many of the things you are advocating are desirable). Unfortunately, though much of the world likes Americans as people, they loathe and detest America as a country, and see it as a role model - to avoid, not to imitate. This is not just a matter of extremist Muslims - my parents, conservative (by British standards) elderly people, find America as a nation to be hypocritical, ignorant and bullying. This makes it very difficult for the USA to be seen as a moral leader.

For example:

The US political system is stuck firmly in the model and morality of 18th-century British politics - hopelessly corrupt and driven by factionalism and cheap opportunism rather than matters of principle, for the most part. Just check out the fact that most Western nations have a Socialist movement that is represented in their legislature, and spending limits on elections resulting in a wider range of representation than the millionaires and multi-millionaires infesting the US Congress. US democracy is hardly a model to be followed (lower turnover rate in US Senate than USSR Politburo, and most House seats gerrymandered to make a mockery of voting - not to mention reliance on crooked technology).

The US military system has got hopelessly tangled with foreign policy to the extent that the Pentagon, not the State Department, dictates foreign relations. This is quite leaving aside the obscene amount spent on so-called &quot;defense&quot;: occupying forces scattered round the world, high-tech non-functional weapons systems, and a system of state-sponsored weapons industry (Eisenhower&#039;s Military-Industrial Complex), together with an almost constant war against the enemy du jour. The rest of the world looks at US policies here and says &quot;no thanks&quot; - this is not the way to restructure the UN.

US health care - can anyone actually be proud of the system, after all that&#039;s risen to the surface over the past few months? American-style health care? No frigging way.

US economics - maybe when Wall Street was running smoothly, there was a case for urging the adoption of the US economic laissez-faire model. Unfortunately it turned out (as has happened so often in the past with bubbles) to be smoke and mirrors shoring up a fundamentally corrupt and rotten system (don&#039;t ask me how smoke can shore something up!). Many countries are running in horror from the US free-range capitalist model towards something with more discipline and control. IMF and World Bank under US control? No way.

US social statistics - incarceration, poverty, low educational standards and anti-intellectualism that pervade American life, lack of control over violence (especially with regard to firearms), etc. Not to mention the internal hatred and discord that threatens to bring about a new split in the Union. Is this really a role model that the USA wants to hold up for China, for example, to follow?

I am not saying that there is one country that is better than the USA in all of the above points, nor do I claim that the USA is the worst country in the world on all these points (or even necessarily on any of them). What I am saying is that the combination of all of these is pretty appalling.

America has no right to be self-righteous and claim its right, by force, to impose its standards and way of life on others. Anyone who claims the USA is the &quot;city on the hill&quot; or has a natural right to pre-eminence is as deluded as the poor Soviet citizens who were force-fed the lies of the CPSU for so long, believing that the USSR was the greatest, most democratic country in the world.

If America wishes to be seen as a leader, there is much to be done. The world will gladly welcome a saner, more egalitarian (internal and external) America. But currently, I would say &quot;get your own house in order, and then come back - as the first among equals, maybe. But until then...&quot;.

Once again, I have many American friends, and Americans on the whole are kind, generous and wonderful people (exceptions exist, of course, but they are exceptions, not the rule). But America as a nation stinks in the nostrils of much of the world. Sorry, but if you look outside the USA, it&#039;s true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You have some interesting points here &#8211; well argued and well presented. I even agree with many of your ideas, but I feel that you are starting from completely the wrong position.</p>
<p>Basically, you are asking the world once again to bow down under the American yoke (though I do appreciate that many of the things you are advocating are desirable). Unfortunately, though much of the world likes Americans as people, they loathe and detest America as a country, and see it as a role model &#8211; to avoid, not to imitate. This is not just a matter of extremist Muslims &#8211; my parents, conservative (by British standards) elderly people, find America as a nation to be hypocritical, ignorant and bullying. This makes it very difficult for the USA to be seen as a moral leader.</p>
<p>For example:</p>
<p>The US political system is stuck firmly in the model and morality of 18th-century British politics &#8211; hopelessly corrupt and driven by factionalism and cheap opportunism rather than matters of principle, for the most part. Just check out the fact that most Western nations have a Socialist movement that is represented in their legislature, and spending limits on elections resulting in a wider range of representation than the millionaires and multi-millionaires infesting the US Congress. US democracy is hardly a model to be followed (lower turnover rate in US Senate than USSR Politburo, and most House seats gerrymandered to make a mockery of voting &#8211; not to mention reliance on crooked technology).</p>
<p>The US military system has got hopelessly tangled with foreign policy to the extent that the Pentagon, not the State Department, dictates foreign relations. This is quite leaving aside the obscene amount spent on so-called &#8220;defense&#8221;: occupying forces scattered round the world, high-tech non-functional weapons systems, and a system of state-sponsored weapons industry (Eisenhower&#8217;s Military-Industrial Complex), together with an almost constant war against the enemy du jour. The rest of the world looks at US policies here and says &#8220;no thanks&#8221; &#8211; this is not the way to restructure the UN.</p>
<p>US health care &#8211; can anyone actually be proud of the system, after all that&#8217;s risen to the surface over the past few months? American-style health care? No frigging way.</p>
<p>US economics &#8211; maybe when Wall Street was running smoothly, there was a case for urging the adoption of the US economic laissez-faire model. Unfortunately it turned out (as has happened so often in the past with bubbles) to be smoke and mirrors shoring up a fundamentally corrupt and rotten system (don&#8217;t ask me how smoke can shore something up!). Many countries are running in horror from the US free-range capitalist model towards something with more discipline and control. IMF and World Bank under US control? No way.</p>
<p>US social statistics &#8211; incarceration, poverty, low educational standards and anti-intellectualism that pervade American life, lack of control over violence (especially with regard to firearms), etc. Not to mention the internal hatred and discord that threatens to bring about a new split in the Union. Is this really a role model that the USA wants to hold up for China, for example, to follow?</p>
<p>I am not saying that there is one country that is better than the USA in all of the above points, nor do I claim that the USA is the worst country in the world on all these points (or even necessarily on any of them). What I am saying is that the combination of all of these is pretty appalling.</p>
<p>America has no right to be self-righteous and claim its right, by force, to impose its standards and way of life on others. Anyone who claims the USA is the &#8220;city on the hill&#8221; or has a natural right to pre-eminence is as deluded as the poor Soviet citizens who were force-fed the lies of the CPSU for so long, believing that the USSR was the greatest, most democratic country in the world.</p>
<p>If America wishes to be seen as a leader, there is much to be done. The world will gladly welcome a saner, more egalitarian (internal and external) America. But currently, I would say &#8220;get your own house in order, and then come back &#8211; as the first among equals, maybe. But until then&#8230;&#8221;.</p>
<p>Once again, I have many American friends, and Americans on the whole are kind, generous and wonderful people (exceptions exist, of course, but they are exceptions, not the rule). But America as a nation stinks in the nostrils of much of the world. Sorry, but if you look outside the USA, it&#8217;s true.</p>
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		<title>By: coolrebel</title>
		<link>http://www.thereisnoplan.com/2009/02/15/the-rise-of-neo-liberalism/#comment-18</link>
		<dc:creator>coolrebel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:22:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thereisnoplan.wordpress.com/?p=766#comment-18</guid>
		<description>first of all, am really enjoying this debate.

looks like the neo-liberal trademark is gone as you suggest. it&#039;s a shame, because it&#039;s such a neat counterpoint to neo-con, but new name for the concept is needed.

on israel, the two state solution is the only solution. and the clock is ticking very loudly. israelis won&#039;t accept anything like a single state. they&#039;d fight to the end first, so regardless of who&#039;s in charge they have to be forced to accept a side by side palestinian state now. remember sharon was the biggest hawk ever and if hadn&#039;t suffered that terrible stroke, he might have led Israel to peace on good terms.

on afghanistan, i suggest a massive verifiable bribery campaign to stop opium. if the farmers are getting good money not planting the stuff, the taliban will resort to strong arm tactics that will eventually fail. eradicating the crops by force as you say is a waste fo time.

on pakistan, i believe we have to support and westernize the PK army so they loosen ties to the ISI. we also need to support PK &#039;new economy&#039; and bulid a cadre to strengthen civilian government. it&#039;s all about patriotism in PK

on china, i just think we need to redress the imbalances with china by using beijing&#039;s fear of social unrest as a weapon. i agree that the zero sum may be a ways off - but it&#039;s coming. we&#039;ve been giving it up to china for far too long.

on debt - you&#039;re right. we should just try and lose the debt entirely and use our renewable energy leadership to do it.

on the UN, the easier way to go would be to restructure the UN through a US prism as you suggest. I wonder if that&#039;s possible, or if the place and its various agencies is just too far gone. perhaps the best way to find out is for the US to attempt its full-scale reform. as a side note;  perhaps one avenue for a new international forum would be for international humanitarian/military intervention - led by the US - in darfur for example.

i&#039;ll start thinking about a new name for the neo-lib concept. if you have any thoughts add them to the list!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>first of all, am really enjoying this debate.</p>
<p>looks like the neo-liberal trademark is gone as you suggest. it&#8217;s a shame, because it&#8217;s such a neat counterpoint to neo-con, but new name for the concept is needed.</p>
<p>on israel, the two state solution is the only solution. and the clock is ticking very loudly. israelis won&#8217;t accept anything like a single state. they&#8217;d fight to the end first, so regardless of who&#8217;s in charge they have to be forced to accept a side by side palestinian state now. remember sharon was the biggest hawk ever and if hadn&#8217;t suffered that terrible stroke, he might have led Israel to peace on good terms.</p>
<p>on afghanistan, i suggest a massive verifiable bribery campaign to stop opium. if the farmers are getting good money not planting the stuff, the taliban will resort to strong arm tactics that will eventually fail. eradicating the crops by force as you say is a waste fo time.</p>
<p>on pakistan, i believe we have to support and westernize the PK army so they loosen ties to the ISI. we also need to support PK &#8216;new economy&#8217; and bulid a cadre to strengthen civilian government. it&#8217;s all about patriotism in PK</p>
<p>on china, i just think we need to redress the imbalances with china by using beijing&#8217;s fear of social unrest as a weapon. i agree that the zero sum may be a ways off &#8211; but it&#8217;s coming. we&#8217;ve been giving it up to china for far too long.</p>
<p>on debt &#8211; you&#8217;re right. we should just try and lose the debt entirely and use our renewable energy leadership to do it.</p>
<p>on the UN, the easier way to go would be to restructure the UN through a US prism as you suggest. I wonder if that&#8217;s possible, or if the place and its various agencies is just too far gone. perhaps the best way to find out is for the US to attempt its full-scale reform. as a side note;  perhaps one avenue for a new international forum would be for international humanitarian/military intervention &#8211; led by the US &#8211; in darfur for example.</p>
<p>i&#8217;ll start thinking about a new name for the neo-lib concept. if you have any thoughts add them to the list!</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://www.thereisnoplan.com/2009/02/15/the-rise-of-neo-liberalism/#comment-19</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 06:54:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thereisnoplan.wordpress.com/?p=766#comment-19</guid>
		<description>A lot to respond to here...and this is purely my opinion so don&#039;t take it with offense!  It&#039;s a great post to read and very constructive.

1) Neo-liberalism is a term that evokes liberalizing economic policies and markets. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-liberalism  So that&#039;s what I thought of first, not a geopolitical ideology...  What&#039;s confusing is that neo-cons actually support neo-liberal economic policies for the most part.

2) Two-state solution seems to be dead politically with the recent Israeli elections and the infeasibility of figuring out how that would work.

3) Agreed on Iran, but working with Pakistani military and attacking Afghani opium is current policy and is badly failing.  It won&#039;t work to beef up efforts there.

4) I don&#039;t think China will be in a zero-sum superpower war against us.  At least not until maybe the latter half of this century.  The US enjoys pretty strong advantages over the rest of the world still (the economic devastation is creaming China&#039;s workforce right now and they have to deal with the potential instability of such a divide between rich and poor).

5) Instead of restructuring debt with new countries, why not reduce the debt altogether?  That implies seeking solar solutions for energy (to free us of large oil liabilities) and to create new banks along with a strengthened financial regulation system.  It wasn&#039;t that long ago that the US was a creditor.

6) I think the US should take the lead in the UN again...it is a pretty good institution given its limitations.  But it misses US leadership.  The problem with giving it a stronger military mandate is a) military intervention is questionable in its results and b) that would undermine sovereign state theory about international affairs.  Who would enforce military action on the international coalition level, knowing it could be used against them too?

7) Your last point is key.  Universal health care and support systems to defray the effects of market failures.  Pour investment into education, R&amp;D, innovation, the internet, university research on energy and internet.  That investment will be needed to build a new economy with new market leaders that can free us from our foreign dependencies.  It will also attract talent from abroad and keep the US doing what it does best...being innovative.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A lot to respond to here&#8230;and this is purely my opinion so don&#8217;t take it with offense!  It&#8217;s a great post to read and very constructive.</p>
<p>1) Neo-liberalism is a term that evokes liberalizing economic policies and markets. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-liberalism" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-liberalism</a>  So that&#8217;s what I thought of first, not a geopolitical ideology&#8230;  What&#8217;s confusing is that neo-cons actually support neo-liberal economic policies for the most part.</p>
<p>2) Two-state solution seems to be dead politically with the recent Israeli elections and the infeasibility of figuring out how that would work.</p>
<p>3) Agreed on Iran, but working with Pakistani military and attacking Afghani opium is current policy and is badly failing.  It won&#8217;t work to beef up efforts there.</p>
<p>4) I don&#8217;t think China will be in a zero-sum superpower war against us.  At least not until maybe the latter half of this century.  The US enjoys pretty strong advantages over the rest of the world still (the economic devastation is creaming China&#8217;s workforce right now and they have to deal with the potential instability of such a divide between rich and poor).</p>
<p>5) Instead of restructuring debt with new countries, why not reduce the debt altogether?  That implies seeking solar solutions for energy (to free us of large oil liabilities) and to create new banks along with a strengthened financial regulation system.  It wasn&#8217;t that long ago that the US was a creditor.</p>
<p>6) I think the US should take the lead in the UN again&#8230;it is a pretty good institution given its limitations.  But it misses US leadership.  The problem with giving it a stronger military mandate is a) military intervention is questionable in its results and b) that would undermine sovereign state theory about international affairs.  Who would enforce military action on the international coalition level, knowing it could be used against them too?</p>
<p>7) Your last point is key.  Universal health care and support systems to defray the effects of market failures.  Pour investment into education, R&amp;D, innovation, the internet, university research on energy and internet.  That investment will be needed to build a new economy with new market leaders that can free us from our foreign dependencies.  It will also attract talent from abroad and keep the US doing what it does best&#8230;being innovative.</p>
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		<title>By: Continuing The Neo-Liberalism Discussion &#171; There Is No Plan</title>
		<link>http://www.thereisnoplan.com/2009/02/15/the-rise-of-neo-liberalism/#comment-20</link>
		<dc:creator>Continuing The Neo-Liberalism Discussion &#171; There Is No Plan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2009 08:32:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thereisnoplan.wordpress.com/?p=766#comment-20</guid>
		<description>[...] a comment &#187;  Badd Bob of Planned Obsolescence has built on my discussion about Neo-Liberalism with a thought-provoking post that asks some fascinating long term questions about where US [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a comment &raquo;  Badd Bob of Planned Obsolescence has built on my discussion about Neo-Liberalism with a thought-provoking post that asks some fascinating long term questions about where US [...]</p>
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